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Kingcurrie


I'm with this guy
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Kingcurrie
And before you say it T.C. Yes he is too old for me
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andyl
Facinating

no way this is ever going to be shown on mainstream TV.

 

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Kingcurrie
Was talking to a chap who watched an interview with a high profile doctors saying it's not as lethal as flu but more infectious.

Herd imunity is an approach where the vulnerable are protected but the rest are exposed to build up imunity.
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Kingcurrie
andyl wrote:
Facinating

no way this is ever going to be shown on mainstream TV.

 



It's interesting that the professor in the interview claims that the whole government house arrest policy is bas ed on a report from the royal college of oxford.
This paper wasn't a published paper and wasn't reviewed by his peers.In science that means it has no kudos or authority.

Your right though andyl, any views that aren't in line with the official rhetoric aren't given any airtime.
What happened to real journalism. It's quite scary really.
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Danish Leeds Fan
Kingcurrie wrote:
Was talking to a chap who watched an interview with a high profile doctors saying it's not as lethal as flu but more infectious.

Herd imunity is an approach where the vulnerable are protected but the rest are exposed to build up imunity.


This.

The Swedish approach, or strategy, counts in many more aspects than just corona. Depression, anxiety as well as pure ‘quality of life‘ issues like loneliness are considered. In Stockholm, it’s said that about one third of the population has been through the disease, and during May herd immunity is within reach. Could be preferable to the slow motion/never ending over-cautious strategy we see in most countries, including mine.
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andyl

What is never released by mainstream media is the breakdown of deaths in relation to obesity, ethnic background, age and sex. We are all aware that age is a big factor but if you add in the other factors and throw in underlining health issues I reckon it would be a fairly substantial percentage of the fatalities.

I get that if they were released a lot of people would say” this will not effect me” so I reckon we will never see them.

it seems we went for the worse case scenario and built a plan to that. Ok, being cautious is a virtue in cases like this, but the heavier the lockdown the harder it is to get out.

Unless we wait for a vaccine, it’s difficult how, given current restrictions, we will get back to anything like our normal life. No way football is coming back with crowds and given some scientists views, we may as well pull down the blinds, lock the door and wait until next year. 

It’s a brutal balance between the economy taking a massive nosedive and how many fatalities are morally exceptable.

IMO we didn’t do enough to protect the old and vunerable early doors. My sister works in a care home and they still don’t have all the PPE they need. They are relying on the staff not to get infected and bring it to work.


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Tony Currie10

Cheers KC and will watch.... very weird as even if we're not doing anything, I can't be arrsed to watch a 30mins video but seem to watch endless hours of c-rap 1min videos sent through on WhatsApp!!

Anyway, by the time I've watched it we'll all be perfectly well again after injecting disinfectant.... I raise a glass to Donald of Trump


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Kingcurrie



Boris Johnson talks to the people in this country like a public school headmaster

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Tony Currie10

That's an interesting take on it all KC!

You could even say in a way that Sweden is putting it's economy before the health of the population!

You could say irresponsible, selfish etc etc but they do have a point as well about people staying in and then all going out at the same time.... especially younger people who are perfectly healthy and never come into contact with the elderly.

There is no right or wrong in this as never happened before and conflicting opinions of what should be happening from those in charge....

Some people will always flout the law anyway and I know teenagers from my boy's school are still getting together in the daytime for instance....


FISHCURRIE PROMOTIONS WORLD CUP 2018 SWEEPSTAKE WINNER....

GLENN HODDLE IS THE FUTURE....

LAST MAN STANDING WINNER 2018
EURO U.21's 2017 SWEEPSTAKE WINNER....
DIMNEST POSTER 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020....
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Kingcurrie
You can approach a problem with fear and panic where society has many negative effects such as poor mental health, neglect of other citizens, or you can stay calm and keep the mood of the country positive.

If both of these approaches result in the same results i.e. Number of deaths in the country, then is there a right of wrong ??

The media has from the offset set the tone of the country to fear mode.
Fear weakens the immune system. It is possible to be cautious without sheeiting yourself.
A top medical man on the radio the other day said that because of the virus there will be 20000 extra deaths from cancer due to recent neglect of patients with symptoms who aren't getting treatment.
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Lord Snoddy Weather Man
Just watched all that KC . Interesting stuff.
Only time will tell which country has done the right thing. The only thing I am certain of is that we let down the older generation in care homes. Spare capacity in existing hospitals and the Nightingale ones while old people die alone . perhaps years ahead of their time.
That will be thing that will be remembered when all this is over, or it should be anyway.



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Kingcurrie
Our energies should have been focused on protecting the elderly for sure they are the ones vulnerable to this.


This fella won the Nobel prize so is hard to argue with
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andyl
My sister works in a care home. She has only just had testing. Their PPE has been crap.

Fortunately they decided quite early to close the place to visitors and new admissions, so touch wood, they may get away with it.

The warnings were there in Italy about care homes. It wasn’t heeded IMO.

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thackleywhite
I work for the NHS frontline as a clinician.  This virus is a SARS coronavirus. It's lethality has yet to be worked out but a conservative estimate is 20x more lethal than influenza.  It is droplet spread and can be spread via coughs, sneezes or just someone talking nearby. It is also airborne. Research as shown virus particles can travel up to 27metres.    It has a huge range of symptoms and in many there are no symptoms  but these individuals can still spread the virus via talking and just breathing.

The UK has no antibody test in use just yet but one should be available for mass testing within the month.  Getting a test to show if you have the virus or not is reasonably easy. (can book online).

The uK had a great deal of time to prepare not just from January onwards but from as far back as 2016 when exercise cygnus spelled out the threat and the actions required.  Theresa Mays Govt chose not to act. Indeed her Govt cut funding to the UK PPE stockpile by 30 million per year from then on.   Professor Valance warned the UK Govt last year of a pending pandemic and once again Theres Mays Govt chose not to act.

The probable number of deaths in the UK due to the virus is over 50,000 so far.  There will be a second wave later in the year. Easing of lockdowns in the UK is a really bad idea at the present time as the daily rate of new infections is still over 3000 per day.   With a lot of luck and a great deal of hard work we may have a vaccine in the autumn.  Hope that we do.

Swedens death rate and numbers of infections is rising steadily.  Johns Hopkins University (which specialises in pandemic/virus behaviour) estimated a similar virus if not managed well had the potential to kill 65 million in 18 months.

The Uk allowed 18 milion people into the uk on flights from all around the world from January to april. This seeded tens of thousands of cases across the UK.  There are still up to 170 flights per day arriving at heathrow from China, New York , Iran and Italy.    The UK Govt will be facing huge judicial lawsuits from crminal negligence in due course.  The lack of PPE has resulted in most of the deaths in care homes and over 200 deaths of NHS workers.   Not many in the NHS have much time for this Govt or the one before and anger is high.
 
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BB

Thanks for sharing Thackers - a very interesting read.


BB
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Kingcurrie


Another view that swerves away from media and government propaganda.
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Kingcurrie



This 100%.
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andyl
And this was on the BBC? Wow
They have always shied away from anything that’s not government driven.
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lufc1
Don't think that was the response the reporter was expecting he put forward his point of view very well
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Bull Thick With Drink
Fair points and well articulated.

I do however wouldnt agree with him in the 


people can live life as they like



I think restrictions are necessary especially with a possible outcome of the virus is death.

If people can live life as they like and its upto each individual to decide whether to go to the theater / pub how is that being responsible?

Unless someone is testing themselves everyday nobody can be 100% certain that they haven't got the virus so to gather / mix in large numbers isnt responsible in my book. The virus is invisible so we cant see it so we cant see an infected person. If people can live life as they like then thats like saying im a great driver never crashed my car so i can do 150mph on a road and its upto everyone else to look after themselves!!!


 
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Soopaleeds
I really like that one - very much on my wavelength
Everybody has a story to tell.     That's why I hide at home [facepalm-smiley-emoticon]
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PapaSmurf
Kingcurrie wrote:
Our energies should have been focused on protecting the elderly for sure they are the ones vulnerable to this.


This fella won the Nobel prize so is hard to argue with


Henry Kissimger and Yasser Arafat both have nobel peace prizes, whereas Ghandi hasn't. And Bob Dylan got one for literature! So its quite easy to ague with.

If it wasn't for the lockdown, my parents would probably be dead by now, as they are both over 80, one has beaten cancer, the other has had a stroke. They are in good shape but had they caught covid 19, they wouldn't have survived. So I totally welcome the lockdown. 

 

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thackleywhite
It is a weird virus and disease response. We see patients with positive results with nil symptoms. And amongst them are pensioners with lung disease.  At the other end of the spectrum we see patients in their 20's who end up on CPAP and ventilators with no underlying co-morbidity.  We see patients sent home who are still covid positive 6 weeks later! And with no symptoms.

The truly scary thing about this virus is it's absolute ability to kill sometimes quickly and sometimes 3 weeks later and longer and that nobody can predict with any certanty how one individual will respond to the virus.

I expect it will become very low in numbers infected over july and august but will then increase as autumn comes.  A viable vaccine is a must.  We must also prepare for a second wave which we think is nailed on later in the year. Testing capacity needs to be ramped up along with contact tracing.  PPE stocks need to be built up as well (not just in the NHS but care homes and anybody deemed as an essential worker). 

And obviously a plan to lockdown the country more quickly with a large emphasis on controling borders more effectively and suspending flights asap.

I think a great deal of people in the UK have had this virus and don't even know. Testing recently took place in a premises where over 600 essential workers are. 150 tested positive and were asymptomatic! (no symptoms at all).
 
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Soopaleeds
The bit that gets overlooked is the risk/reward balance.

If all we have to concentrate on is restricting COVID, and that's the only game in town, then lockdowns, police patrols, strict laws on travel etc are all perfectly valid.
The truth is it isn't. There are some prominent healthcare professionals pointing out there may be 20,000 early cancer deaths because people didn't get help quick enough due to focus on COVID
How many people over the next 5 years will die from poverty/mental health issues brought on because of the damage done to people's lives as a result of the lockdown.
I do not have an answer, nobody does, but we have to open our eyes to the whole picture and do the rather horrible wider risk/reward calculation.
As the last posted interview points out, most of the COVID deaths are registered as such along with other co-morbidity issues that would have caused death in the near future anyway, so how do we do the hard maths?
Everybody has a story to tell.     That's why I hide at home [facepalm-smiley-emoticon]
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Bull Thick With Drink
Can be summed with the age old saying soopa


Doctors differ patients die



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Kingcurrie
PapaSmurf wrote:


Henry Kissimger and Yasser Arafat both have nobel peace prizes, whereas Ghandi hasn't. And Bob Dylan got one for literature! So its quite easy to ague with.

If it wasn't for the lockdown, my parents would probably be dead by now, as they are both over 80, one has beaten cancer, the other has had a stroke. They are in good shape but had they caught covid 19, they wouldn't have survived. So I totally welcome the lockdown. 

 



Ok regarding the Nobel prize, there are exceptions to the rule, but 99 time out of a 100, the Nobel prize is given to individuals outstanding in their field and they usually have sharp faculties, no ?
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Kingcurrie
Bull Thick With Drink wrote:
Fair points and well articulated.

I do however wouldnt agree with him in the 


people can live life as they like



I think restrictions are necessary especially with a possible outcome of the virus is death.

If people can live life as they like and its upto each individual to decide whether to go to the theater / pub how is that being responsible?

Unless someone is testing themselves everyday nobody can be 100% certain that they haven't got the virus so to gather / mix in large numbers isnt responsible in my book. The virus is invisible so we cant see it so we cant see an infected person. If people can live life as they like then thats like saying im a great driver never crashed my car so i can do 150mph on a road and its upto everyone else to look after themselves!!!


 


His point about those who feel vulnerable staying at home seems clear enough?

There is a big difference between getting on a motorway and doing 160mph and driving sensibly.
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Kingcurrie
Soopaleeds wrote:
The bit that gets overlooked is the risk/reward balance.

If all we have to concentrate on is restricting COVID, and that's the only game in town, then lockdowns, police patrols, strict laws on travel etc are all perfectly valid.
The truth is it isn't. There are some prominent healthcare professionals pointing out there may be 20,000 early cancer deaths because people didn't get help quick enough due to focus on COVID
How many people over the next 5 years will die from poverty/mental health issues brought on because of the damage done to people's lives as a result of the lockdown.
I do not have an answer, nobody does, but we have to open our eyes to the whole picture and do the rather horrible wider risk/reward calculation.
As the last posted interview points out, most of the COVID deaths are registered as such along with other co-morbidity issues that would have caused death in the near future anyway, so how do we do the hard maths?


This is the crucial point for me, the other side effects of lockdown.

Too many people have died but more will die from the fallout pointed out by you soopa.
There seems to be 2 approaches, New Zealand strict lockdown, or sweden relaxed
New Zealand are in a good place now and God willing it will stay that way. But I'm worried that the nature of the virus cannot be stopped and herd immunity, barring a vaccine,seems the likeliest way of victory.
It is good we can debate without vitreol as these are strange time s and everyone is upset.
I don't care who's right or wrong, I just want life to be to be normal again, and by that I mean making contact with others.
Life means very little without intimacy in My opinion and if I had to choose between a risk Free life and a risky but enjoyable existence there is no contest.
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andyl
Brutal truth is the whole world economy is shutting down for a minuscule % of the population.

There are debates about how countries have dealt with the virus but it seems IMO, we went with the largest most extreme predicted death rate and based our response on these figures.

Only in months to come will the correct method be highlighted, but I suspect probably not.

In my own humble opinion we were hopelessly unprepared for a virus. I think western governments saw no choice. Years of underfunding in the NHS and in particular, the care system, made the politicians panic.

Politically the government promised much in the new blue north and promises about investment is the NHS so it would be political suicide to totally stress out the system, hence the prioritisation of the hospitals over a care system that is mostly private.

On balance I’d take the risk route out of this. If I was allowed in the pubs tomorrow I’d be there. Go on a plane on holiday, yes to that too.

No way would that be a recommendation from any government or expert. Underestimating a predicted death rate is job well done.
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thevoiceofreason
In the short term you have to say 'well done' to New Zealand,they have prevented mass infection and deaths...But have they built up an immunity for a possibly worse 2nd wave? And as for Sweden,they've taken a hit but not one as big as other countries...but with their relaxed approach they have more than likely got a better chance than most other nations of having a strong immunity to the vrus for the 2nd wave..... It's hard to decide which one of those countries did the right thing.... is there actually a right course of action against an unknown virus?
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Kingcurrie
The NHS has been neglected for years and this has been repeatedly denied.

The slogan by the government to save the NHS is the height of hypocrisy.

A psychiatrist came into my mates work place the other week and pointed out the fact that she has always valued the NHS and doesn't need blackmailing into respect.

It seems like common sense to me that herd immunity is sensible. Like you say VO R, New Zealand are looking good now but I don't think they can avoid it indefinitely.
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Bull Thick With Drink
Kingcurrie wrote:


His point about those who feel vulnerable staying at home seems clear enough?

There is a big difference between getting on a motorway and doing 160mph and driving sensibly.



I said 150 not 160 KC



im not a madman on the road i'll have you know [wink]
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thackleywhite

The NHS is not a charity and it isn’t staffed by heroes. It has been run into the ground by successive governments and now we are reaping the rewards of that neglect, on the background of the public health impact of years of rampant inequality in the UK.

Are we still allowed to complain about poor resources and potentially unsafe working conditions now we’ve had clapping, rainbows, free doughnuts and a nice old fella walking round his garden for us? How dare we?!

The clapping drives me nuts and a lot of my colleagues feel the same. We regard it as govt planned emotional blackmail.  This Govt and the one before it are 100% to blame for the diabolical mess we find ourselves in.  Of course China are to blame for the virus but we had a month's warning to prepare in a better manner.  And in reality we had several years warning.

We also had a 600 word report by Prof Vallance last year on epidemics/pandemics and the actions the UK needed to take.  It was totally ignored by Theresa May!  Prior to that was exercise cygnus in 2016.  You will hear a great deal about exercise cygnus when the enquiries start.

And Again Theresa May was at the helm when that report was lovingly ignored.  We are all fed up of this virus but it isn't going anywhere until we have a vaccine.

 
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BB
Lesson to be learned is improve the NHS structure and the conditions for all workers in hospitals and care homes (who should not be run on making money but privatised and brought into the NHS)

We are spending billions on furloughing people so we have billions to spend in these areas.







BB
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Kingcurrie
Bull Thick With Drink wrote:



I said 150 not 160 KC



im not a madman on the road i'll have you know [wink]


Haha respect 😎
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Kingcurrie
thackleywhite wrote:

The NHS is not a charity and it isn’t staffed by heroes. It has been run into the ground by successive governments and now we are reaping the rewards of that neglect, on the background of the public health impact of years of rampant inequality in the UK.

Are we still allowed to complain about poor resources and potentially unsafe working conditions now we’ve had clapping, rainbows, free doughnuts and a nice old fella walking round his garden for us? How dare we?!

The clapping drives me nuts and a lot of my colleagues feel the same. We regard it as govt planned emotional blackmail.  This Govt and the one before it are 100% to blame for the diabolical mess we find ourselves in.  Of course China are to blame for the virus but we had a month's warning to prepare in a better manner.  And in reality we had several years warning.

We also had a 600 word report by Prof Vallance last year on epidemics/pandemics and the actions the UK needed to take.  It was totally ignored by Theresa May!  Prior to that was exercise cygnus in 2016.  You will hear a great deal about exercise cygnus when the enquiries start.

And Again Theresa May was at the helm when that report was lovingly ignored.  We are all fed up of this virus but it isn't going anywhere until we have a vaccine.



It's a breath of fresh air to hear this 👍

they were discussing the formentioned report on 5 live when all this started. Edwina Currie was trying to wriggle out of it.
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Kingcurrie
https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-karol-sikora-fear-is-more-dangerous-than-the-virus/
This is very balanced and cant understand why it was taken off you tube
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BB
So can we blame the right wing Tory Party for causing more than 50K deaths in the UK to appease the guys that provide them the most funds?

Go after the billionaires in the tax havens and companies like Amazon. So what if they think they pay loads of taxes in the UK (PAYE etc). Let them Feck Off out of here. I doubt many would! The loss of income/profits would be too great. 

The Government needs to be firmer on their friends


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