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Daniel2
So far this season we have sent out some of our young players to clubs in lower leagues and the top conference. Looking at what going on I have noted that some are doing fairly well. Given these players are close to the end of their contract with us and the current terrible performances from our most senior or highest earners I thought it maybe a good idea to test these kids for the remainder of the season and see what they have. Players like Lewis and Nathan Turner, C Taylor have played almost every game for their loan clubs and doing very well. Let try them.
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Wildwood
do you think it's the right kind of environment to be throwing in the youngsters, dan? don't get me wrong, i'd love to introduce some of the promising youngsters, but our tactics are just so chaotic - will that kind of exposure not harm their development (look at the impact it's had on older players)?
Disclaimer: unless stated otherwise, it's meant in jest 
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Daniel2
WildWood,
I really understand that while we are playing bad and the off field issues/sh1t that it may not be the best time but really if they do not play then they will not have the chance to prove themselves. To be honest if we do this then it has to be all the way and that is to say the team would be totally set up for this very experiment and that is we play these guys all together as they have known each other for manly year and played together so they would know each other's games. This experiment has to be for a minimum 3 games straight thus allowing the players a time to get comfortable.
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Skygod
I don't think recalling loan players is right, but maybe some of the players in the Development team should get a runout in games.
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Wildwood
but who would manage them, dan?

i know lamberts has tried using young players at villa, but he's got a modern footballing philosophy, with clear tactics and instructions.

i think there's a very fine line between making it in the championship or droppping down into non-league and playing for the likes of farsley, garforth, etc. and my fear is that this kind of uncertainty will harm their development rather than enhance it...but we'll probably never know because they won't get a chance anyway.
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Seb_Sorsa
I think Taylor's got the bottle, speaking to a Fleetwood fan he was quite clear that the lad doesn't shy away from the ball and has shown some guts. I'm always a little sceptical about chucking in young lads for the sake of it, but I guess you never know until you give them a go who know's where Byram would be if NW had gotten Joel Ward?
In....... I trust!
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Skygod
David O'Leary was responsible for the problems of developing the youth.

Howard had built up a solid foundation of developing and bringing on young players. George Graham was reluctant to bring them forward too quickly, but on his departure, O'Leary flooded the team with his 'babes'.

The team suddenly transformed with all these kids that could play and compete at the top level, but the Development team had nobody left to bring on for the next few years.

How many of the 'babes' really went on to become 'greats'?

I'd argue that most never fulfilled their 'potential'

Discuss!
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Wildwood
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I'd argue that most never fulfilled their 'potential'

Discuss!


or perhaps o'leary got the most out of them, and other managers were unable to do the same...
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Rhino White
Hopefully we'll see some of the youngsters before the season is done but like suggested above just throwing them into the current environment could be very damaging long term.
I think it's already had a detrimental effect on Mowatt especially playing him wide in midfield when he's clearly a CM with stacks of potential but still very raw and learning his trade.
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Seb_Sorsa
Wildwood wrote:
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I'd argue that most never fulfilled their 'potential'

Discuss!


or perhaps o'leary got the most out of them, and other managers were unable to do the same...


I dunno all the ones who actually had massive potential suffered from multiple inuries later on and the rest weren't particularly fantastic in the first place.
In....... I trust!
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Skygod
Seb_Sorsa wrote:
I dunno all the ones who actually had massive potential suffered from multiple inuries later on


That's also what 'Development' is about. Look at the problems with Byram! Development encompasses strengthening their bodies before taking week in week out 'punishment'.

If you want to understand how gruelling it can be on a youngsters body, read through all the Tweets from Robbie McDaid over the past 18 months.


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Seb_Sorsa
Yeh I'm familiar with that SG, but I was meaning more about WW comments on O'Leary getting more out of them than other managers. I've always been of the unpopular opinion that other than at best 3 none of the youngsters were of the standard they were built up to be.
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Wildwood
yeah, you're right seb, woody and smith (off the top of my head) suffered serious injuries. but i think the likes of bakke, bowyer, kewell, and mills never really hit the same heights after leaving leeds. i actually liked o'leary as a coach...thought he was ahead of his time as a manager from the uk & ireland.
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Skygod
Seb_Sorsa wrote:
Yeh I'm familiar with that SG, but I was meaning more about WW comments on O'Leary getting more out of them than other managers.


My argument is simply that I think they were brought on too fast and their bodies couldn't take it.

The talent was there and many of them 'broke down'.


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Seb_Sorsa
Bakke and Kewell both had injury plagued seasons aswell. Agree on Bowyer and Mills though, especially Bowyer he really was a special talent IMO. I liked O'Leary but thought his failings got horribly exposed whenever we played in the crunch games and lost his way abit when Risdale gave him millions to spend. The job he did in 98-99 and 99-00 IMO was far superior to what came after.
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Sheppey
Ross Killock, Lewis Turner, Nathan Turner, Charlie Taylor, Simon Lenighan, Alex Cairns, Gboly Ariyibi and Richard Bryan all out of contract in the summer, other then Taylor i cant see any of them staying


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Skygod
Seb_Sorsa wrote:
Bowyer he really was a special talent IMO.


IMHO, Bowyer was a cancer cell in the dressing room. A NASTY racist thug (even before he arrived at LUFC). I don't know if the CCTV coverage still exists of his smashing up a fast food outlet. No other Club would touch him when they found him out. Big transfer to Liverpool suddenly failed? They knew!


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andyl
If BM stood aside and let Naylor do the selection and tactics it might work.

In reality, I think we will drift to the end of the season, because it would have to happen right now. We have no one in charge with the balls to do anything about it.

If in a couple of games time we are just a loss away from the relegation places then it will be too late anyway. 
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Wildwood
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the job he did in 98-99 and 99-00 IMO was far superior to what came after.


yeah, i agree, seb, which is why i appreciated his coaching ability....i think the big time got too much for him in the end.
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Pistol White
I don't subscribe to the argument that players like Woody, Smith et al were put in the first team too early, if that is the argument.  Woody was world class at 18/19 years old, as was Kewell, Smith was a real prospect, Harte was good at LB (though always lacked pace), Bowyer was world class at Leeds better than Lampard IMO at that time and Lampard has gone on to have many England caps.  Yes some of them got bad injuries, but I don't put that down to being in the first X1 too soon.  All those players had the best years of their career at Leeds.  Woody was very unlucky IMO would have had 100 caps for England without the court case stuff and then all the injuries, Kewell had a poor attitude IMO as well as the injuries, never fulfilled his promise, he had a season with us, not sure if it was 98/99 or 99/00 where he was one of, if not the best attacking player in the premier league, he was unstoppable down the left for a while.
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Dessip
Aside from Woody and Smith who else did he really blood? Bowyer, Mills, Bakke, Rio, Bridges and erm Huckerby etc had all been bought in from other clubs for decrnt money and Kewell had already broken through as had Ian Harte I believe.. The team was young for sure but they were surrounded by maturity with people like Martyn, the Chief, Batty, Jimmy and Dacourt all having had solid experience..

I hate DoL to be fair so I may be doing him a disservice...the frckin cnut!

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Seb_Sorsa
Skygod wrote:
Seb_Sorsa wrote:
Bowyer he really was a special talent IMO.


IMHO, Bowyer was a cancer cell in the dressing room. A NASTY racist thug (even before he arrived at LUFC). I don't know if the CCTV coverage still exists of his smashing up a fast food outlet. No other Club would touch him when they found him out. Big transfer to Liverpool suddenly failed? They knew!




Oh he was a complete tw@ no doubt, but he was a top player and as important as anyone in our rise (and fall)
In....... I trust!
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stevethemouse
With the way the fans are reacting to the players booing and chants ' your not fit to were the shirt ' not a good idea Dan imo
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thevoiceofreason
At the end of the day it was a mixture of youth,experience and good coaching skills by O'Leary that gave us those successful seasons and you can't take that away from him.....I still maintain that despite the obvious advantage he had with transfer funds,he is still the best manager we've had since Wilko without a doubt.Some may say Grayson might have eclipsed him if he had better funds but I disagree.... Even with a bottomless pit of money at his disposal a manager still needs to have excellent coaching skills to be successful....But Unfortunately nowadays with all the silly money going around,decent players are very expensive and the reverse of what I just said comes into effect..... You can have the best manager/coach in the world but if you don't have decent funds available he will be limited in what he can do.... [tounge]
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Auvers
Think if MC gets the club the atmosphere at matches will change and that would be the time to bring them in,you can only learn so much at places like Fleetwood,no disrespect intended,if we are safe from relegation think our young players could relax a bit and enjoy the experience ,think the fans would welcome the chance to see what they can do in the first team
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LEEDS YRA CHAP
Oleary's best period revolved around him and Eddie Gray coaching together. When he brought Brian Kidd in ( Nothing to with his scum back ground) and Roy Aitken he then demoted Eddie and put his suit on and forgot the basics of why we had been doing so well. The combination of that, the court case, his book added to the mess and then Ridsdale not saying no to O'learys demands for big bucks for new players changed everything.

I wonder if he realises this now
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PapaSmurf
Seb_Sorsa wrote:
Skygod wrote:
Seb_Sorsa wrote:
Bowyer he really was a special talent IMO.


IMHO, Bowyer was a cancer cell in the dressing room. A NASTY racist thug (even before he arrived at LUFC). I don't know if the CCTV coverage still exists of his smashing up a fast food outlet. No other Club would touch him when they found him out. Big transfer to Liverpool suddenly failed? They knew!




Oh he was a complete tw@ no doubt, but he was a top player and as important as anyone in our rise (and fall)


I'm with Skygod on this. I despair when cancerous scumbags get caught out for being subhuman thugs and then another club buys them - Morris, Wise, Bowyer, Barton et al.
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Lilly
Wildwood wrote:
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I'd argue that most never fulfilled their 'potential'

Discuss!


or perhaps o'leary got the most out of them, and other managers were unable to do the same...


Robinson played for England but ultimately probably didn't achieve his potential
Harte - not so much a babe of O'Leary but I think he maximised his career and is still doing so
Woodgate - bedevilled by injury so unlucky
McPhail - proved too slow for the very top level
Kewell - was magnificent for Leeds I thought before his utter twatness became apparent at Liverpool
Smith - see Woodgate

I'm sure I've missed a babe or two but certainly looking through that list the majority of them peaked at Leeds really so it's fair to say they may not have reached their potential.

I certainly wouldn't be bringing the youngsters back into the X-rated Nightmare on Elland Road.
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Daniel2
As Sheppy had said the players I mentioned are out of contract come seasons end and will not have a had the chance to prove they were capable in the first team for us. I agree there is a harm in over playing youngsters but there is also the harm of not developing talent further by not exposing them. The players I mentioned are all 20 odd years old and really need this chance. If we still have BM in charge then he manages them but with clear instruction ( style like what was played in preseason).

Fact on young players making it or not really comes down to the advise they get from everybody around them. James Milner is the perfect former young star for our players to try and emulate.

Please tell me what the difference between CM Nathan Turner who has now played 60 odd Conforence games and playing Tonge would be during the game during this point of the season?
Please tell me what the difference between LB Charlie Taylor who has now played 9 SPL games and 30 League 2 and playing Warnock would be during games at this point of the season?

The answer is that we find out weather or not they can make it in this league and given that it will be during a time when the other players mention are doing. Sweet fukc all in the first team I do not see how we can lose. While our fans maybe irate right now they are more then aware enough that we are giving these guys a go and will back them as long as they willing to try extremely hard giving their all which is all us fans ever want. This point in the season there really is nothing to lose.
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Wildwood
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I'm sure I've missed a babe or two but certainly looking through that list the majority of them peaked at Leeds really so it's fair to say they may not have reached their potential.


oh, yeah, i think it's possible that many didn't achieve their full potential, but was just throwing another perspective into the mix.
but coming to think of it, one person not realising their potential...okay, it happens, two people, can also happen. but if more or less the whole bunch of them (some through injuries, granted) don't fulfil that potential, then perhaps there's another factor in play...and it doesn't necessarily have to be the 'o'leary factor'.


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I certainly wouldn't be bringing the youngsters back into the X-rated Nightmare on Elland Road.


nope, it would kill the little buggers' confidence and development.
Disclaimer: unless stated otherwise, it's meant in jest 
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